ppy/chat-transcript_unedited_20131017a.txt ------ Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131017 2013-10-17 GMT-08:00 [PDT] ------ [9:13] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologyBasedStandards mini-series session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17 = Session Co-chair: Dr. GaryBergCross (SOCoP) & Dr. TaraAthan (Athan Services) Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues Panelists / Briefings: * Dr. LuisBermudez (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web" * Dr. SimonCox (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)" * Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan) * Dr. TorstenHahmann (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology" Logistics: * Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17 * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now (as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.) . == Proceedings == . [8:58] anonymous morphed into Ola Ahlqvist [9:19] anonymous morphed into Bruce Simons [9:19] PeterYim: There has been some issues with skype connections (variously reported by people from different locations.) Therefore, if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184# [9:20] PeterYim: Note also, that you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.) [9:20] PeterYim: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia, Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/ [9:22] Gary Berg-Cross: Hello all. [9:26] anonymous morphed into LuisBermudez [9:27] LuisBermudez: Hi everyone [9:30] Simon Cox: Is my chat coming through now? [9:30] anonymous morphed into TorstenHahmann [9:31] AmandaVizedom: @SimonCox - Yes [9:34] anonymous1 morphed into Ram D. Sriram [9:34] anonymous2 morphed into BobbinTeegarden [9:34] anonymous1 morphed into FrancescaQuattri [9:36] anonymous morphed into GenZou [9:37] anonymous1 morphed into Cecilia di Sciascio [9:37] AlexShkotin: We may download slides and follow without hooper:-) [9:38] anonymous morphed into Todd Pehle [9:40] PeterYim: == GaryBergCross & TaraAthan started the session ... please bring up slides under: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17#nid3Z8V [9:41] Simon Cox: @PeterYim - I have vnc shared screen now OK [9:42] PeterYim: great ... thanks, Simon [9:42] PeterYim: ... on slide#3 now [9:44] anonymous morphed into DeborahMacPherson [9:45] Richard Martin: Peter - how do I stop the chat window from resetting to the top all the time? [9:47] AmandaVizedom: re: slide 5 (Ontology in Geospatial Topics) -- that kind of domain category work is a great resource and a head-start if well-accepted. It is something quite different, however, to bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and different again to bring in semantic technologies to make use of them. How new would you say *those* activities are to the domain? [9:47] anonymous morphed into nelcypina [9:47] PeterYim: @Richard Martin - not sure I understand you? See if there is anything in "Settings" (top center of window) helps [9:48] PeterYim: == LuisBermudez presenting ... [9:51] Gary Berg-Cross: @Amanda Good point bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and different again to bring in semantic technologies to make use of them and we'll hear about some of this in the talks starting with Luis.... [9:52] anonymous morphed into Richard Martin [9:56] nelcypina morphed into NelcyPina [10:05] Gary Berg-Cross: I should have mentioned that we save Questions to the end of all of the presentations. [10:10] PeterYim: == SimonCox presenting ... [10:11] DeborahMacPherson: Hi Luiz - can you please briefly discuss Geo4NIEM? Thanks [10:14] Gary Berg-Cross: If we hold to the current schedule we will have 20 minutes for Q&A 2:10-2:30. [10:18] LuisBermudez: @Deborah, good point geo4niem information is here: http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/geo4niem [10:21] Gary Berg-Cross: @simon Wow! UML seems quite limiting to understand all the relations you are describing. [10:22] Harold Boley: Voice connection broken! [10:22] TaraAthan: Simon, we can't hear you. [10:22] Harold Boley: Simon? [10:22] PeterYim: we lost Simon ... probably lost his connection ... hope he dials back in [10:23] Harold Boley: How would he Know, not expecting feedback from the audience at this point? [10:24] anonymous morphed into JoshLieberman [10:24] Bruce Simons: I do [10:24] FrancescaQuattri: great [10:24] Bruce Simons: I have tried skyping him [10:25] Harold Boley: Also: Future speakers should be encouraged to keep their cell phones on. [10:25] Simon Cox: I'm back now [10:26] Harold Boley: ISO 19150-2 (2015?) [10:27] LuisBermudez: About the OGC GeoSemantics WG: it is chaired by Josh Lieberman and Simon Cox. It meets regularly at the OGC TC meetings. They also run a semantic experiment 7 years ago: http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/gswie [10:27] PeterYim: @BruceSimons @SimonCox - thank you! [10:30] anonymous morphed into Nikkia Anderson [10:32] AmandaVizedom: @SimonCox - thank you for discussing how you have been managing the UML/OWL mismatch when transforming. The approach of creating business/conceptual models in UML and then generating OWL (automatically, manually, or some of each) has become increasingly common, but these issues are still very much live. [10:36] Harold Boley: Slide 20 [10:39] JoshLieberman: The conception of observation as social is fascinating. May explain the widespread (mis-)apprehension that scientific truth depends on who you believe. [10:40] Gary Berg-Cross: @simon Thanks! Great stuff... Enjoy a morning coffee. [10:40] PeterYim: == excerpt on CoryHenson's SSN ontology work (presented by TaraAthan) ... [10:41] Simon Cox: I'm hoping Cory will be at 6th SSN workshop in Sydney next week, to discuss the overlaps and tensions! [10:41] Simon Cox: Maybe he's travelling now ... [10:42] Gary Berg-Cross: @Simon No, I think that he is just back from some travel but tied up this time slot. [10:43] Simon Cox: In OGC/ISO we distinguished between provider- (sensor) centric and user- (observation, property) centric viewpoints. Provider-centric is most closely related to SensorML, consumer-centric motivated O&M [10:45] Simon Cox: Now we lost Tara? [10:46] FrancescaQuattri: Tara, we cannot hear you [10:46] PeterYim: we just lost Tara ... hope she connects back in a moment [10:46] TaraAthan: I'll try to reconnect [10:47] PeterYim: great! [10:47] TaraAthan: skype froze on me [10:47] AmandaVizedom: @JoshLieberman - I'm not so sure. The idea that *truth* is relative in that way most often shows up in naive or theoretical contexts that don't seriously incorporate social means and methods of gathering or checking information. The idea of observation as quite complex and typically incorporating social elements, on the other hand, is one well-developed approach in epistemology and philosophy of science, and generally not relativistic about truth in that way. [10:47] PeterYim: take your time, Tara [10:48] Simon Cox: I like view that if there is no experimental or social context there is no observation. [10:49] Simon Cox: But that feels like it is at a different meta-level than the usual natural science context [10:49] AmandaVizedom: @JoshL - but I agree with you that it is fascinating. Modeling either way has special areas of emphasis and dilution. [10:50] NelcyPina: Sorry, I cannot see the slides... [10:50] Simon Cox: Start here: http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/ [10:50] Simon Cox: This is a temporary domain until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not be for a couple of years :-( ( [10:51] NelcyPina: I am hearing Tara but I cannot see the slides :( [10:51] Simon Cox: if you ask for http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/iso19156/2011/sampling you should get the lot [10:51] AmandaVizedom: @SimonCox - many would agree with that, Using "observation" as a technical concept, distinct from, say experiencing some stimuli, and even more specifically as something in a particular relationship to experiments, data, and measurement. [10:51] PeterYim: ^SimonCox's response to MichaelGruninger's question on where can he find the axiomatization of the ISO standard [10:52] NelcyPina: let me see ... [10:52] AlexShkotin: We need here define physical algorithms (observation|measurement) - this is a challenge:-) [10:52] PeterYim: @NelcyPina - if you have trouble with the vnc shared-screen, just download the slides and run them on your own machine locally [10:53] Simon Cox: need to be a little careful about Accept: header (http) - I tried to set up server so you get rdf/xml by default, to match OWL API, but some browsers don;t play nice, so if you get a surprising result, set application/rdf+xml explicitly ... [10:56] Simon Cox: SensorML, and also ISO 19115-2 have modelled sensor/platform systems [10:56] Simon Cox: (SensorML is OGC standard) [10:57] Simon Cox: @Tara - perhaps this one: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Incubator_Report#Aligning_the_SSN_Ontology_and_the_core_SSO_design_pattern_with_DOLCE [10:59] NelcyPina: Thank you @PeterYim and @SimonCox [10:59] Simon Cox: SSN strongly represents provider-centric viewpoint, as shown by the support provider for sensor system description, and sensor-stimulus model [10:59] PeterYim: == TorstenHahmann presenting ... [11:01] TaraAthan: SSN class