ppy/OntologySummit2013_s11_chat-transcript_unedited_20130328a.txt ------ Chat transcript from room: summit_20130328 2013-03-28 GMT-08:00 [PDT] ------ [9:17] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologySummit2013: Virtual Panel Session-11 - Thu 2013-03-28 = Summit Theme: Ontology Evaluation Across the Ontology Lifecycle * Summit "Track": Hackathon-Clinics Activities Session Topic: The OntologySummit2013 Hackathon & Clinics Launch * Session Co-chairs: Mr. MikeDean (Raytheon-BBN), Professor KenBaclawski (Northeastern U) and Mr. PeterYim (CIM3; Ontolog) Panelists / Briefings: * Dr. AmandaVizedom (Ind. Consultant) - "HC-05. Hackathon: Ontology of Ontology Evaluation" * Mr. VictorAgroskin / Mr. AnatolyLevenchuk (TechInvestLab) - "HC-06. ISO 15926 Reference Data Validation" * Professor JoanneLuciano (RPI-TWC) - "HC-02. The General Ontology Evaluation Framework (GOEF) & the I-Choose Use Case" * Dr. MarcelaVegetti (INGAR, Argentina) / Mr. AliHashemi (U of Toronto) - "HC-04. OntologySummit2013 Content Hack: Leveraging Semantics on OntologPSMW - (a) the website" * Professor KenBaclawski (Northeastern U) - "HC-04. OntologySummit2013 Content Hack: Leveraging Semantics on OntologPSMW - (b) the underlying technology" * Mr. JoelBender (Cornell U) - "HC-01. BACnet Ontology Hackathon" * Mr. MikeBennett (EDM Council) - "HC-03. FIBO Ontology Evaluation with OOPS!, OQuaRE and Other Tools" * Professor Dr. TillMossakowski (U of Bremen) - "HC-07. Ontohub-OOR-OOPS! Integration" slides * Professor KenBaclawski, Mr. MikeDean, Mr. PeterYim (program co-champions) - "The OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics Process and Schedule" Logistics: * Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_03_28 * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName (in WikiWord format) * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later or the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. * Note: ... it has come to our attention that our conference bridge provider is running into some problems with the "joinconference" skype connections. In case anyone gets in trouble, please try to call the phone numbers instead (e.g. from your phone, skype-out, google-voice, etc.) . == Proceedings: == . [9:30] MariaPovedaVillalon2 morphed into MariaPovedaVillalon [9:34] AmandaVizedom: In case it isn't just me: the slide links accompanying the full Panelist/Briefings descriptions all worked for me, but not all of the links under "Prepared presentation material (slides)" did. [9:35] PeterYim: == MikeDean opens the session on behalf of the co-chairs ... see: the [0-Chair] slides [9:35] Joanne Luciano: i lost sound [9:35] anonymous1 morphed into dougFoxvog [9:35] anonymous morphed into BobbinTeegarden [9:36] PeterYim: @Joanne - can you try calling into the phone line, please [9:36] anonymous morphed into ElisaKendall [9:37] Joanne Luciano: we're back in (had to dial - skype flaky) [9:38] anonymous1 morphed into Djoko Sayogo [9:38] anonymous morphed into Jeff Braswell [9:41] JoelBender: @Peter - I'm having a hell of a mess getting connected - sorry - [9:41] PeterYim: == AmandaVizedom presenting ... see: the [ HC-05-Vizedom ] [9:41] anonymous1 morphed into Nic [9:42] PeterYim: @Joel - skype has been problematic lately (in the US) can you try calling into the phone line, please [9:42] PeterYim: ... see above note (right above "Proceedings") [9:43] PeterYim: @MikeDean - we still have about 10 people on the call who are not on the chat ... please prompt them when you have a chance (in between speakers) [9:43] Joanne Luciano: @Amanda - may want to use James Michaelis's provenance work (see our GOEF presentation) later or contact him directly [9:47] dougFoxvog: I find this Saturday & Sunday a very awkward time for a Hackathon, as (at least for me) this is a weekend that family gets together. I might be able to handle Sat. morning. [9:48] Joanne Luciano: How much time to i/we have to present (GOEF)? [9:48] MikeDean: @Joanne 8 minutes [9:48] Joanne Luciano: thanks Mike. [9:49] dougFoxvog: I'll put together a minimal submission, Amanda. [9:49] MatthewWest: @Amanda: I won't have time to participate in real time, but I would be interested to take a look at and review the conceptual ontology you produce. [9:50] PeterYim: == AnatolyLevenchuk presenting ... see: the [ HC-06-Levenchuk-Agroskin ] [9:51] AmandaVizedom: @doug - understood. Whatever time you can make would be appreciated! [9:52] JoelBender: @Peter - I think I'm in [9:52] DavidWhitten: Amanda, could you clarify again the mechanics of your Hackathon? Is it an in-person one, or by-phone-conference, or ??? [9:53] AmandaVizedom: Matthew, that's great. We will have it up publicly at the end of day 1. [9:55] AmandaVizedom: Oh, sorry Dave - it is remote, using a combination of tools - starting with an open webcast using ontolog / summit channels, then moving to some combination of slide share/ chat/ file sharing support that works for all participants (e.g., Google+ Hangout is an option). [9:55] List of members: AliHashemi, AmandaVizedom, AnatolyLevenchuk, anonymous, Bob Smith, BobbinTeegarden, DavidWhitten, Dennis Wisnosky, Djoko Sayogo, dougFoxvog, ElisaKendall, EricChan, EricChan1, FabianNeuhaus, James Michaelis (RPI), Jeff Braswell, Joanne Luciano, JoelBender, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, MariaPovedaVillalon, MatthewWest, MichaelGruninger, MikeBennett, MikeDean, PeterYim, SamirTartir, TillMossakowski [9:56] AmandaVizedom: @Joanne - noted. [9:57] PeterYim: @DavidWhitten - there will be a presentation on process and schedule details later in this session (after all the project intros) [9:57] PeterYim: @Joel - great! [10:00] PeterYim: @anonymous - please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName (in WikiWord format) ... many thanks [10:01] ArturoSanchez: ArturoSanchez: @AmandaVizedom: Sorry if you have discussed this already ... have you decided on formalisms/languages/tools that will be used to express the conceptual models? ArturoSanchez: @AmandaVizedom: (You just mentioned briefly that ... but if you can elaborate a little that would be great. Thanks!) [10:04] PeterYim: == JoanneLuciano presenting ... see: the [ HC-02-Luciano ] slides [10:06] AmandaVizedom: @Arturo - Not yet committed, but here are some considerations: I'd like to be able to confer with all participants re: comfort and access. flexible graphical tools may work best. I don't want to pre-commit to language of formal model, so the graphical OWL viewers are probably not optimal. If we go graphical, we may deal with the difficulty of multidimensional visualization by having multiple graphs, making explicit where/how they connect. [10:07] AliHashemi: @Amanda and Arturo - I think we're also aiming to be able to at least annotate some of the output of the current summit with the vocabulary that is developed as a result of ontology of ontology evaluation hackathon [10:07] AliHashemi: So, I would imagine that some subset of it will be realized on the PSMW [10:08] AmandaVizedom: @Ali - thanks for pointing out, yes. Some of that will, I hope, happen through use our outputs in the summit PSMW [10:13] AliHashemi: @Amanda, but yes, fully on board that we should put off the formal representation until we have a better understanding of what we can model informally. [10:13] PeterYim: == AliHashemi presenting ... see: the [ HC-04a-Hashemi-Vegetti ] slides [10:15] PeterYim: ICOM : Integrated Collaboration Object Model (correction - ref. slide#2) [10:20] DavidWhitten: I assume aTrackCommunitInput Space on slide 9 should be aTrackCommunityInput Space [10:21] anonymous1 morphed into FQuattri [10:23] ArturoSanchez: @AliHashemi: If I understand what you are saying correctly: the OntologPSMW is an application of PSMW ... so which ontology will your project evaluate the application ontology (associated with OntologPSMW) or the "foundational ontology" (the one associated with PSMW)? Thanks! [10:24] PeterYim: @Arturo - some answers to your question coming up in the next (KenBaclawski's) presentation [10:25] PeterYim: == KenBaclawski presenting ... see: the [ HC-04b-Baclawski ] slides [10:25] ArturoSanchez: @Peter: Thanks! [10:27] AliHashemi: @Arturo - I'm participating on two distinct projects, with one (the website) hoping to use the results of the other (Ontology of Ontology Evaluation). What I just presented was with the website hat on. They're distinct projects. Does this answer your question? [10:29] AliHashemi: @David, yes, thanks for catching the typo [10:29] PeterYim: on slide#5 now [10:31] PeterYim: == JoelBender presenting ... see: the [ HC-01-Bender ] slides [10:40] ArturoSanchez: @JoelBender: slide 7 you said you are mapping to .NET types? [10:41] ArturoSanchez: @KenBaclawski: the web pages that are generated, are they static pages only? (I was wondering if the translator will play a role akin to that of JSP, ASP, etc.) [10:42] Jeff Braswell: Joel -- side note: doesnt IPV6 address some of the component/device addressing issue ? [10:43] AmandaVizedom: @Joel: re: Network of things issues - Indeed, ontologized BACnet could, possibly, enable such folks to take advantage of the substantial work on semantic sensor networks, etc. [10:43] PeterYim: == MikeBennett presenting ... see: the [ HC-03-Bennett ] slides [10:43] PeterYim: from Joel -- side note: doesnt IPV6 address some of the component/device addressing issue ? [10:44] DavidWhitten: What does FIBO stand for? [10:44] PeterYim: @Joel - the editing box for input is under the "hand button" (not the one on its left) [10:45] Jeff Braswell1: Financial Industry Business Ontology [10:47] AmandaVizedom: Post-note re: something I didn't make clear in the HC-05 presentation -- The requirements gathering is done partly to feed the model building, but also to practice what we preach -- requirements as basis of evaluation. It is my intention to do, and document, evaluation of the resulting ontology. Specific will be based on (a) requirements gathered, and (b) tools available for the KR language we use. [10:48] JoelBender: @Peter - not really, there is very little expectation that very small, power and bandwidth constrained devices will be able to implement an IPv6 stack. It does help with scale, in theory there could be a lot more devices that are considered "peers" and and communicate directly to each other, but in practice there isn't enough experience with it to know. [10:49] MichaelGruninger: I need to leave now -- all of these projects are fantastic! I'm really looking forward to the results. [10:50] AmandaVizedom: (what I just described may not fit within hackathon weekend, however) [10:50] dougFoxvog: Re OOPS! Pitfall #13 (Slide 7). Depending on one's model, one may want inverse relations -- or wish not to have inverse relationships because they provide two different ways to make the same statement. [10:51] JoelBender: @Arturo - no, these are not .NET types, they have similar characteristics, and there are BACnet stack implementations that use .NET, but there is nothing in the standard that describes its components using .NET terminology. [10:54] MariaPovedaVillalon: @DougFoxvog, yes, that's is why we do not call the pitfalls "errors" they are not always. It is just meant to "remind" developers that they might have forgotten to include an inverse, if they want to, otherwise, they can just ignore some output items. Indeed in the Restful WebService one can choose which pitfalls you want to check [10:54] MariaPovedaVillalon: also we are working in that selection in the online application [10:54] DavidWhitten: As I understand it Purple Numbers provide a fine-grain reference down to a paragraph level rather than just to a page level. Does that mean that URLs on PSMW include a purple number as a part of the URL reference? [10:55] ArturoSanchez: @JoelBender: thanks ... so, have you define a formalism that defines these types, using which mappings can be built to various platforms? (For instance, this would enable the development of applications that read information generated by sensors in the building, which target specific operating systems) [10:55] KenBaclawski: @Arturo: The generated web pages have behavior associated with them. The form pages, for example, have input boxes and checklists. The template pages define semantic properties that are used by other pages, such as the forms that use the template. [10:56] ArturoSanchez: @JoelBender: Re: my previous question, I should have written "have you defined" ... sorry :-) [10:58] ArturoSanchez: @KenBaclawski: Thanks! ... I was wondering if the ontology and associated translator represent an alternative to more complex frameworks such as JEE or ASP.NET ... [10:59] ArturoSanchez: @KenBaclawski: (based on just HTML5 ... for instance) [11:01] JoelBender: @Arturo - it is up to the library developer to understand how to present BACnet stuff (objects, properties and services) to the application developer which is going to be platform specific. For example, there are libraries in C for embedded systems development, I have authored an open-source library in Python, there is another in Java (someplace), and there are commercial libraries for Windows developers. [11:01] dougFoxvog: @Maria: In the case that your policy is NOT to have inverse relationships, having them would be a pitfall which could be added to OOPS!. Perhaps the user could inform the tool of such choices. [11:04] PeterYim: == TillMossakowski presenting ... see: the [ HC-07-Mossakowski ] slides [11:04] MariaPovedaVillalon: @doug thanks for the idea, for my ToDo list... [11:05] dougFoxvog: @Arturo: SUMO has an ontology for features and functions of web pages . [11:05] MikeBennett: @Doug that sounds like a good area for us to explore. [11:05] ArturoSanchez: @dougFoxvog: thanks ... [11:05] KenBaclawski: @Arturo: Wikis in general are an alternative to the more complex frameworks. Of course, PSMW does not support all of the features of the other frameworks, but it is a lot simpler and has support for RDF triples. [11:06] JoelBender: @Arturo - there is a portion of the standard called "web services" which is SOAP, which is as close to an API that is in the standard. Believe it or not, that web services API is only loosely bound to the objects and properties in the rest of the standard, for political reasons - there was pressure to get something published because the committee was battling the noosphere with other organizations. [11:08] ArturoSanchez: @JoelBender: Yes, I can imagine that ... anyway, the problem of interconnecting heterogeneous representations of data types is of course well known (e.g., XDR from--the then--Sun Microsystems, and more recently JVM and CLI). So, I was wondering if some of this knowledge was reused in your ptoject. [11:10] MatthewWest: Sorry, I have to go now. [11:10] PeterYim: thanks, Matthew [11:10] JoelBender: @ ArturoSanchez: That is compounded by the problem that BACnet defines data types that don't map well into anything - specifically Date and Time which can contain wildcard values used for scheduling. [11:11] ArturoSanchez: @KenBaclawski: Yes, I agree ... Thanks [11:12] PeterYim: TillMossakowski: errata on slide#4 - "github.com" (not "github.org") [11:12] Joanne Luciano1: do we have a sense about whether our proposed hackathons will be viable? i see only a few people signed up to help and many many of us looking for help. [11:12] ArturoSanchez: @JoelBender: Thanks ... [11:13] PeterYim: == KenBaclawski presenting on behalf of the H-C co-champions ... see: the [ 1-Chair ] slides [11:14] Joanne Luciano1: BTW, I just posted info about the hackaton on the public-sem-hclsig mailing list [11:15] Jeff Braswell1: @Joanne I'm liking 'hackaton' :) [11:16] Jeff Braswell1: But I'm thinking "ontothon" [11:16] ArturoSanchez: @AllWhoKnow: sorry to ask ... will the Hackathon-Clinics take place this Saturday and Sunday (3/30/2013 and 3/31/13)? [11:19] AliHashemi: @Arturo, I believe these slides just answered you question [11:19] AmandaVizedom: @Arturo - schedule here: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics#nid3PG4 [11:19] PeterYim: KenBaclawski: errata - slide#7 - Day-3 is 13-Apr-2013 (not Apr-11) [11:19] AliHashemi: @Ken, I believe, "Saturday 11 April 2013 (Day-3)" should read "Saturday 13 April 2013 (Day-3)" [11:19] Joanne Luciano1: @Jeff LOL -- one can only hope! It's actually a pretty good term now that you bring my attention to it. [11:20] PeterYim: == Q&A and Open Discussion ... [11:20] List of members: AliHashemi, AmandaVizedom, AnatolyLevenchuk, ArturoSanchez, AstridDuqueRamos, Bob Smith, BobbinTeegarden, DavidWhitten, Dennis Wisnosky, dougFoxvog, EricChan, EricChan1, FabianNeuhaus, FQuattri, James Michaelis (RPI)1, Jeff Braswell1, Joanne Luciano1, JoelBender, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, MariaPovedaVillalon, MichaelDenny, MikeBennett, MikeDean, Nic1, PeterYim, SamirTartir, SteveRay, TillMossakowski [11:20] ArturoSanchez: @AliHashemi: Thanks, you just beat me to my "I stand corrected" statement! [11:21] ArturoSanchez: @Amanda: thank you, Amanda ... [11:22] Dennis Wisnosky: The FIBO project is to eval the potential of the tools, not to eval FIBO. Pls change your slide. [11:23] DavidWhitten: Joanne, where will you have cookies? GRIN [11:24] dougFoxvog: Everyone gets cookies! ... just look inside your web browser. 8)# [11:24] ArturoSanchez: @dougFoxvog: Ha! (good one!) [11:24] JoelBender: lol @ doug [11:24] DavidWhitten: They're just binary encoded, not chocolate chip encoded... [11:25] Joanne Luciano1: Come to Rensselaer!!!! Troy, NY. I'll have beer afterwards too! [11:27] Joanne Luciano1: @Doug -- I had made that comment to James Michaelis- for the online participants. For the local ones, cookies like the ones that can be measured in Kcal. [11:29] LeoObrst: Great planned efforts, folks! Good luck to all. [11:29] Joanne Luciano1: WOO HOO!!!! (who was is that speaking?) ... [that was JoelBender says that he plans to join in at the Ontology-of-Ontology-Evaluation and the GOEF-iChoose projects during the hackathon --ppy] [11:30] Joanne Luciano1: Joel! What kind of cookies do you like? [11:30] JoelBender: me [11:30] AmandaVizedom: @Joel - we'd be happy to have you [11:30] JoelBender: heh - Ithaca isnt that far from Troy [11:30] PeterYim: MikeDean: Registration (either onsite or remote) is now open for the OntologySummit2013_Symposium at NIST - Thu & Fri May 2~3, 2013 (Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA) - see detials at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013/WorkshopRegistration (registration for onsite attendance is mandatory ... so note the Apr-22 registration deadline!) [11:30] dougFoxvog: This system does not correctly create my smiley: 8 )# -- it shows my beard. [11:31] PeterYim: Again, soliciting help from everyone here: -- for software environment stewards and tool developers, please make sure you participate in the upcoming survey ---and help us get these colleagues of yours to respond to the survey too: http://ontolog-02.cim3.net/wiki/OntologySummit2013_Survey -- ... or provide us with pointers to stewards of relevant software tools/systems/environments so we can reach out to them [11:31] AliHashemi: thank you all. [11:31] SamirTartir: Thank you all. [11:31] FQuattri: remote participation great idea, thank you all [11:31] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:31 am PDT -- [11:31] Nic1: Thank you all. [11:32] PeterYim: great session! [11:32] List of attendees: AliHashemi, AmandaVizedom, AnatolyLevenchuk, ArturoSanchez, AstridDuqueRamos, Bob Smith, BobbinTeegarden, DavidWhitten, Dennis Wisnosky, Djoko Sayogo, ElisaKendall, EricChan, EricChan1, FQuattri, FabianNeuhaus, James Michaelis (RPI), James Michaelis (RPI)1, Jeff Braswell, Jeff Braswell1, Joanne Luciano, Joanne Luciano1, Joanne Luciano2, JoelBender, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, MariaPovedaVillalon, MariaPovedaVillalon1, MariaPovedaVillalon2, MatthewWest, MichaelDenny, MichaelGruninger, MikeBennett, MikeDean, MikeRiben, Nic, Nic1, PeterYim, SamirTartir, SteveRay, TillMossakowski, anonymous, anonymous1, dougFoxvog ------